G: Now why do you want to know everything right away? You will one day definitely know. But the curiosity about death will also bring about curiosity about life. to understand life you need to know death and to understand death you need to know life. Death only indicates that life is eternal. It’s like changing your clothes. Moving from one room to another room. After-death experience is not an uncommon thing. You have many scientific evidences on this also. Millions of people have gone to the border, have had a near death experience and have come back. They have shared, right? But its good to have that curiosity. What’s after death? This very question gives a bigger dimension to our life. it expands our awareness, makes us think much bigger than day to day events and circumstances that we face in life.
Gurudev, we talk about the soul. What is the soul. Is it wave function, tattva? Where is it? How big is it?
G: The consciousness which is all pervading which is like the wave function, like radio waves which are everywhere, but it has certain attributes to it then it becomes a soul. What are they? There is Iccha - desire, dwesha (dislikes aversions), sukha -happiness. Every soul experiences happiness. Dukha -unhappiness, Sanghata- meeting uniting merging, Chetna - it is conscious, and Dhruti - Dhruti cannot be translated into English. Dhruti is that force which upholds the consciousness. So these 7 aspects together give the name soul or life force and it is the same whether for an elephant or an ant. Here measurements fail. You cant say elephant has a bigger soul and ant has a smaller soul. The only difference is it is expressing itself little more as it moves from an ant to an elephant to a human being. It’s expression has blossomed. Say suppose, it is in a bud shape in an ant its little blossomed in an elephant and fully blossomed in an human being. You can also say like paddy then rice and then puffed rice. But its the same stuff.
Gurudev, are there any other realms than the physical that the soul visits?
G : of course there are many realms. Brain is only attuned to a particular bandwidth. Thats all. So we are able to perceive only a certain bandwidth of the whole range of existence that we are. See, your eyes can only see to one level, a cat can see even more than you. Owl can see more than that. So their bandwidth is higher. So the concept of creation as per our cognition, our perceptual ability is very limited. What we cannot perceive from our 5 senses do exist and we cannot deny that only. And so there are realms. After human life this self leaves this body and becomes prethatma and from prethatma it becomes pitru. There is a difference there also. After pitru then they move to higher realms.
Gurudev, does the soul continue to evolve even between lifetimes? Does it continue to drop impressions or does it have to take a human birth to evolve?
G: It has to take human birth. Human birth is to evolve. Impressions goes with the soul and they keep manifesting within that realm like in dream..suppose you are laughing the whole day and in the dream also you start laughing. Haven’t you experienced this? See, a practical experience..if you are crying in the day time in the dream also you start crying. If you are happy haven’t you had dreams where you are also happy? That’s why human birth is very important. So when soul leaves this body it remains in different realms but to become free it has to come back.
Gurudev, what are the different ways in which the soul leaves the body? Are some ways better than others? And do we have a choice on how we want to leave?
G: Your soul leaves the body, sometime through the eyes,some through the mouth. You will see some people’s eyes roll and they leave through the eyes. Sometimes it goes through the ears, mouth. It can leave through anal region also. And also through the toes. And for yogis, Dhyanis, it goes through the Brahmarandhra - top of the head.
Question continues - Can we choose, Gurudev?
G: Ya, Ya. If we keep our mind free from cravings aversions agitations and hatred then we go more sattvik. It moves up. Rajasic it moves through different parts and tamasik through the anal region.
Gurudev, the way we breathe impacts our life. Does our breath also impact death and what happens after that?
G: Breathing assumes its own cycle and rhythm when the soul is leaving the body so according to ones karma, the nahi starts working. The soul leaves through the left nostril or it goes through the right nostril. When it exits through the right nostril, then it is free. It goes with knowledge. It is more aware of its wisdom. If it is going through the left side then it is going with certain intentions and emotions so it is going to come back. And it is connected. In life also you will see, when the right nostril is functioning you will find there is more left brain activity so you are more alert, you are conscious and you are logical. But when the left is functioning then the right brain is more active that means you are more emotional and you have intentions to do something. You have plans. so when you have plans you have to come back. When both are functioning, that is Sushumna nadi, then that is samadhi. Then you will exit in meditative state and you have no obligations and dont have to come back. You are merging with the infinite, instantaneously. even if you have to come back it is by a grand plan. For the sake of others, not for your own sake.
Gurudev, Bhishma chose when to die. Is it possible to choose the time of death?
G: Oh ya. If you are a good yogi you can do that.
Question contd - and how does the time of death affect the next life?
G: It is all connected to karma. That’s why it is said the time of birth is important to make ones chart to get an overall view about what ones life will be. The time of death also has a meaning. We say na that someone has got Penchak. The last 5 stars of those who die - dhanishta, satabisha, poorvabadha, uttarabadha revati. These are the last 5 stars. When a soul leaves at that particular time, when these 5 stars are there, it is said that the soul is still earthbound. It doesn’t quickly move on. Like there is a season to sow the seed only then it will sprout in the same way, certain days when the soul leaves the body it remains earthbound for 6 months time. It still lingers around that place. It gets attached to that place. So thats why penchak lag Gaya bolte hain, that is one belief also. You dont have to worry on that.
Gurudev, some people believe that if they live beyond the age of 84 they are not reborn again. Is that true?
G: Age does not count there at all. Some can remain frustrated even beyond 84, 85. You can see people who are 85, 86 or even 90 they look so sad and dull and they are carrying so many cravings and aversions sadness and disappointment in their mind. See, mind doesnt age my dear. Body ages. That’s why people feel that they have not aged though their body is ageing. There is something in them that makes them feel i have not aged. This mind which takes the impressions. People who are beyond 80 and all, they get so addicted to pornography.Their body is dysfunctional but their mind is craving for all those impressions. What impressions they have, You can see people of old age cribbing and being negative and you say they will not be reborn? Who says that? People who pass a certain age, if they are not in the spiritual realm or if they have not cultivated a broad mind set they can still sit and crib. Anyone who cribs will have to come back.
Gurudev, when a person dies, the soul is reborn. Then why do we do Shraddh? How does sharaadh help the departed soul that has already been reborn?
G: Shraadh is for yourself. Shraadh means Shraddha that which is done with Shraddha, with faith. Your sense of gratefulness, sense of acknowledging their contribution to you, definitely creates certain vibrations which goes beyond this realm, like prayer goes beyond this realm, the material realm, the physical realm. Similarly faith, gratitude, acknowledging somebody and wisdom, they all transcend this physical plane. In that sense it reaches them. The custom in you to feed the poor people, when hunger is satisfied, when a desire is fulfilled, there is a sense of gratefulness, of blessing. Those vibes are what is more important. To give someone whatever they need, not forcefully in the name of rituals, you know, we keep on feeding those people who are already over fed or overweight. That will not work. Only the feeling that matters, sense of happiness, fulfillment. All these positive feelings emit vibes and these vibes surpass the material realm. They reach into the subtle realms is what makes these things meaningful. Without feeling, without a sense of gratitude you just do some ritual, they dont have much meaning. that which is done with Shraddha is Shraadh. That conveys that feeling to the people on the other side as well.
The Garud Puran very vividly describes some fearful events that occur after death. Is this in fact the journey of the soul and is this journey different with or without a Guru?
G: When yo have a Guru, it is a different journey. Even that is said int he puranas. Because you are connected to a lineage of Guru and you are moving at a speed of a light. You are moving very fast. Yes, in other things, in the Garud Puran it is said after the soul leaves it lingers on as preth yoni for 10 days because the transition is so big that it gets so confused. Now the body has dropped. It doesnt want to go back to that body, it looks like an excretion. the body doesnt feel like that something wants to get into. But one is not used to the other side. This is called preth yoni. They are in between now. And then after sometime it gets used to this in between state. Then it moves on. Which is where the knowledge helps. When someone dies, the son or daughter or the priest says you are not the body, you are not the mind, you are not your intellect, move beyond this. Let this earth element absorb the earth element in you let the water in your body go to the water, let the fire engulf this entire thing. So we merge our body back into nature. Till now it is holding, this is me. Now it knows i am not this. What am i? Who am i? This awareness starts happening and so it is said, holding the tail of a cow, the soul crosses the river Vaitarni. But what is cow? In Sanskrit Gau means knowledge, it means movement, it means liberation and it means cow also. Even the tail of knowledge, a little bit of knowledge you hold on to, you can cross oceans. Ocean is very big but a small life jacket is good enough for you to float. This is the knowledge that the children give to parents or deceased people. It’s called Tarpan. All that you see in the world is equivalent to a sesame seed. It’s nothing, not significant. Like a sesame seed, drop all your desires, whatever incomplete missions you had in your life, leave it to us. We will take care of it. You be satisfied and move on. So this encouragement by the near and dear ones, even the relatives, everybody - they do Tarpan. Tarpan means be fulfilled - move on. So as a symbol they take little sesame seeds and then tripyatam, tripyatam, tripyatam- be fulfilled, be fulfilled. After 10 days they do this. One understands, from thus in between stage of preth yoni, they have moved on to Pitra Loka. And you conjoin them with your grandfather, grandmother and the previous ancestral lineage. Tell them ,they are there and they are waiting for you and they will receive you. That is what shraadh is all about. That is why it is a celebration. After the 10 days, 12 days, 13 days - rituals are made like that so that no more crying no more sadness from now on you should celebrate.
Gurudev we have heard that the last few seconds before death decides what happens to the person after death irrespective of how they have lived their lives. Is this true? Also is there an ideal way to die so that we are not born again?
G: There are instances in the puranas that say a person in the last minute before his death he started calling Narayana Narayana, though it was his son’s name and he got liberated. But those are exceptions. The last minute only those impressions will come which you have been nurturing your whole life. You cannot create a last minute impression. In the last minute whatever impression has been there will only show up. Yes of course, the strongest of the impressions will prevail and thats why Sri Krishna in the Gita has also said ‘keep me in your ind all the time’ so you make my impression very strong so that you will attain me only, you will get liberated. That means whatever you have been practising, those practices obviously will be your strongest impressions as impressions are already there. They simply surface. They pop up. You cannot try to have a different impression at the last minute. So clear the mind of all impressions and keep it hollow and empty. Keep it free. And that is meditation. People who are regular meditators, who will find automatically at the last moment the meditative mind just takes over.
Gurudev it is said that if we die in a place like Kashi we get liberated. Is this true?
G: Kashi is not a physical place. Kashi is where knowledge is, where the Sushumna - this is called Kashi. The Sushumna nadi - the third eye place is Kashi. This is Ganga, Jamuna, Saraswati (pointing to left nostril right nostril and the nose). Pointing to forehead (third eye), this is also called Prayagraj. Also called Kashi. so when someone’s attention is on the third eye, that is in Sushumna nadi and that is opening and then you die then you are liberated. That’s what it is. Not just go to Kashi and die there. Why Kashi is called Kashi? Kashi was the seat of wisdom. Ad so there were scholars and the discussion was only on Brahman, only on infinity. This discussion on Vedanta, Vedas was so prevalent in Kashi that there was no craving no aversion no yelling no shouting so when anybody comes into such a sangha they will feel elevated. But today it is different. You dont have to see only one place is the seat of wisdom. If someone passes away in Prayagraj this is Mukti. If someone leaves their body in Haridwar that is also Mukti. You go to Himachal Pradesh there is a place there called Mukti dham. There is a place called Mukti Dham also in Nepal. People go tehre. They get Mukti there. Similarly Badrinath. Lord Krishna didnt tell uddhava you go and die in Kashi. He told him i am going. You also go to Badrinath. Adi Shankara went to Kedarnath. Otherwise he would have also left the body in Kashi. He went to Kedarnath and left the body there. Maharishi Patanjali left his body in Rameshwaram. Kerala is called Parashurama Shetra. In different places when you leave the body they say you will attain Mukti when you leave the body here. These are all beliefs. You cannot attach too much importance to them. Even dogs are dying in Kashi. Doesn’t mean they are getting liberated, even buffaloes are dying. Kashi means you are fully aware. The third eye point where the Sushumna nadi is awake and its active at the time of death and you leave then you are liberated.
Gurudev, is it true that a soul can choose the family it is born and if so what drives that choice?
G: Sanskaras. A soul picks up this person, that person because of sanskaras, karmas. You cant even say it chooses them. It just comes into that body. It has no choice. If you have bought a ticket to go to Pune then you have no choice but to board the particular plane to Pune. If you have bought a ticket to go to Kolhapur and its a train ticket then you have to go there, you cant take that ticket go and sit somewhere else. They wont even let you go. Like that.
Gurudev, when someone commits suicide what happens to the soul?
G: its like someone is feeling very cold and they remove their jackets. They feel even more cold. That’s why i say it is the most foolish thing one does. And it takes a long time for that spirit to understand and come out of that regret because it has left the body but it couldn’t leave all the garbage it is carrying with it. All the misery, all the suffering, the pain it has not gone. It thought that be leaving the body it will be free from all that. So it his not. It is like jumping from the frying pan to the fire. But over a period of time they get relieved out of it. That’s why the prayers the meditations the Satsangs group meditation all this brings a cooler breeze to people on the other side.
Gurudev what is the significance of the last rite rituals like tying the toes, pouring water on the face, putting rice in the mouth of the departed?
G: See there are 10 Nadia in our body. Ida, Pingala, Sushumna, kurma, Dhananjaya, trikala..all these Nadis are there. And they are all connected to certain parts of the body. Yawning is connected to a certain nadi, like that twitching of the eye is also connected to the Trikala nadi, burping is also connected to a nadi. When the causal body leaves the subtle body is still there. The nadis are functioning a little bit. Gross body of course there could be some warmth. It takes some time for the body to become cold. Dhananjay nadi runs through both the toes. They tie the toes together so that the Dhananjaya nadi is balanced. So the vayu tattva escapes through the feet. Otherwise what would happen is that the Dhananjaya nadi gets imbalanced and it can bloat the stomach and there is a possibility of the stomach bursting. This is what the ancient people have seen. Interestingly, for sanyasis you make them sit in padmasana. Enlightened people Parayana vayu is escaping through Brahmarandhra. So sanyasis toes are not tied. They are made to sit in padmasana. And then the 5 elements are given as samskara to the body, because the body is made up of 5 elements. Rice is the symbol of the earth element, so first you put rice then you put water, water element. You give them a batch. The water which is sanctified with chants, then you pour the water energised with mantras on the body or Gangajal. When a child is born the first thing we do is bathe the child. So the last thing we do when the body is being disposed is to bathe it and see it off with dignity. Then you take to the anti sanskaara - the fire element. All the 5 elements are invoked so the body can merge back into those 5 elements. These are the things that people knew from a long time. Being aware of what is happening with the gross, subtle and the causal body. So pouring water is not some shock treatment or shock to a body.
Gurudev why is it that in some cultures they cremate their dead.
G: I think it is a very good practice number one - Just imagine billions of people on this planet, if everybody occupies so much space. Second is that the 5 elements should merge back into the 5 elements. See, nature does like that. When animals die, other animals come and they just make sure that nothing remains. It’s only humans - we put the body in coffins, we store it, we make symbols signs on top of it. But how many can we do like that? From an environmental point of view, the ancient cultures, many knew that this is the best way to save nature.
Gurudev, can spirits possess any person? And if yes can devas and higher spirits also possess people?
G: possessing is a very tough word, I would say spirits can be channelled through people. Devas do channel. Very weak mind, weak spirited people feel that they have been possessed by some entities. They simply have to realise that they are much stronger than these feelings, emotions and vibrations that come to them. But one who is on any path, one who is doing meditation, no spirit can come close to them because your spirit is very strong.
Gurudev, there is no experience or knowledge of death while we are alive. UIs it possible to have that experience while we are alive so that the fear of death goes away?
G: You do experience, when you are in deep love, that you are not the body. When you are in deep meditation you experience that i am not the body. I am not the body at all. When you do Sudarshan kriya, what do you feel? You feel you are not the body. You’re consciousness. These experiences are there. These experiences will take away the fear to a great extent. There might be a little string of fear when nature feels it is needed in you, it will keep. That’s why it is called Abhinivesha. A little bit of Lesha Avidya. A little bit of avidya - means ignorance, a little bit of fear, nature would keep because fear is like that shell, that membrane around the seed. That membrane leaves when the seed is sprouting. Till then it protects the seed, right? In the same way a child is induced with a little fear so that it goes here and there and runs back to mother. Suppose it has no fear, it will go away anywhere. That fee are brings the child back to the mother. In the same way, nature keeps certain fear here and there.
Meditation and wisdom, dhyaan and gyaan are the way to overcome them.
Gurudev, is it possible to bring the dead back to life?
G: Well, there are instances where people have come back to life. Near death experiences what we say - clinically people were dead and then they have come back, so many such cases that has happened. But there is noting like somebody is dead and you have buried them and you do some mantra tantra and bring their life back. Just dont believe in those sort of things. As far as i am concerned we should not even keep this in mind. I know of a saint who has passed away and said “I’ll come back” and they are keeping the body in a freezer for years together and they believe that the saint is going to come back. He may come back but why would he choose the same body which is so old. This is all spreading ignorance.
Gurudev how did Savitri bring back her husband to life?
G: It is the same thing like a near death experience. People are clinically dead and then they wake up, get into a state of suspended animation for sometime and then they wake up. But this is not by someone’s efforts that they do some mantra tantra and they try to bring their body back. If they do it, it is through some other spirit, not the same person i tell you. You can invoke some spirit and put it in the body but those things dont work too long. I think its an area worth avoiding.
Gurudev many people who have had a near death experience they describe it as a very beautiful, peaceful state to be in. So then why do they come back to life? And who decided that they can come back to life?
G: karma. It is karma which decides. Whenever a soul exits from this realm, it doesnt even feel this realm is bad,. No. It was good. It had a good time. See people like horror movies, dont they? You dont say i only like comedy movies, you like tragedy movies, thrillers also, horror also. Like that people feel ‘oh, it was good’. You know it has not affected you a bit. Nothing could take away your sheen and shine. So when you are total, when you are intact and when you are invincible, you wont mind. It’s like taking a mud bath. when people take a mud bath, it looks so horrible but if you think you are going to be like that all the time, or your skin has become mud, you would cry. You know it is just a mud bath. For a while you soak in sunlight and then you go and take a bath. How do you feel? You feel good. Int he same way, in whatever role we had to play, we assumed, we chose, that was good! That is why there is an eternal peace. A peace that cannot be destroyed. Shaswat shantim nigacchati. Lord Krishna says, one you comes to me, they attain such a permanent peace that nobody can shake it.
